StarshipCapricorn User Forum

Hi shaq,

You ask if this was really necessary and although it was not my idea, I do support it wholeheartily. Why? Because it is creating an area for positive change.

The point you and a few others forget is that regardless whether NESARA exists as a Law or not does not diminish the fact that it is the only plan in existence that has the potential to set America and the world on a foundation of Peace. Those that support NESARA do so out of their Love for Humanity and Gaia. It is a cause much greater then themselves.

Judging from your posts here, and I go back with you to the beginning of last year, that your inability to grasp this is due to the fact that you don't share our concerns. It is like offering a solution to someone who doesn't know there's a problem. You claim to be a patriot yet you ignore your own Constitution. A true Patriot's bible is the American Constitution and it's Bill Of Rights which have been desecrated for over 50 years and under the current cabal close to destroyed yet you continue to defame NESARA and those that support it when it is the only plan to return America back to Constitutional Law. It is irrelevant right now whether it is real or not. What is relevant is that it can return your country to a true Republic with the power back to the people.

Go to google and type in NESARA and you will find over 180,000 websites worldwide that support the Law. That means millions of people worldwide see its potential for bringing us a world of Peace, Prosperity and Freedom.

Instead of wasting your energy being negative, I suggest you find something you can be positive about that can create a better world which is what most of us here desire. If you have a better plan to create Peace, then let us know. Become an agent for positive change shaq or continue to rant for all the good it will do you.

Lionhawk,

Thank you for your warm greeting. I am back and all is very well.

Tst,

Your statements; "I think I can speak for shaq, and for myself obviously, when I say that we both are very concerned about the issues discussed here at Capricorn.  Does that mean we have to believe that the manifestation of NESARA is the only way to cure these problems?

Tst, what do you believe that will cure the problems of the world discussed on this forum? What idea or plan do you have that will return sanity to America and the planet? All we ever hear from you is slander and conjecture. Negative stuff, no? Where is your solution? Please tell us.

"It is our contention that this obsession with NESARA is actually hindering many good people from doing something that will work, and stop following some imaginary philosophies of that lunatic Dove. "

Is NESARA hindering you from doing something that will work? Is that the problem for you Tst? What is it that you want to do that NESARA prevents YOU from doing?

Amazing how you bring in the rape of your sister example and now Charles Manson when discussing a plan for restoring Peace to the planet. I don't get the connection however it does tell alot about your connections. And once again you go about slandering another being(Dove) who you disagree with. How childish of you. And  interesting how you insist that you attack the message and not the messenger. Is that the case here by calling Dove a lunatic?

Tst, round and round and round you go. I wish I could help you get over the anger and rage. That's why this section is here for you and others to vent. Those of us who want to contribute something useful, now have a safe place to do it. Thank you Michael, admin.

Tst,

Instead of putting down a plan for peace(NESARA) you offer nothing else. You are the one who said it is hindering. Tell me how it is hindering you and others? Why no answer to my question?

Your examples of rape and Manson are yours, not mine. If NESARA is the worng plan then what is? Lets discuss a better one instead of attacking something constructive. Once again, you are all talk and no action.

You said you don't attack the messenger so why do you constantly? Another one of your contradictions. Explain that if you can. Perhaps anger and rage does fit you?

I am obviously in a forum discussing NESARA with you who has negative things to say. I am not hiding from you. I am confronting you where you can be heard.

Lets hear your plan for bettering the world instead of knocking down one that can.

If 180,000 websites supporting NESARA exists and the ones that created it have 20 friends who know about it then that translates to millions of people who are at least aware of a plan.

Once again Tst, I suggest you spend your energy creating a Peaceful Planet.

I answered your questions Tst. Will it make a difference? Probably not as you thrive on confrontation. Typical of a debunker.

"If 180,000 websites supporting NESARA exists and the ones that created it have 20 friends who know about it then that translates to millions of people who are at least aware of a plan."

If you think there are 180,000 pro-NESARA websites you are so very wrong.

Just because you punched in NESARA on google, and 180,000 hits came up, only means that the word NESARA appears in 180,000 websites.  It certainly doesn't mean there are 180,000 websites dedicated to NESARA.

This is how B.S. information starts.  Get facts straight before you call them facts.

My plan for bettering the world?

First, put and end to the false idolizing of B.S. channellers and phony non-manifestations such as NESARA.

Second, everybody promises to do the right thing in every situation.

Which would include the NESARA liars coming clean and admitting it isn't real.

And there are many conclusions that can be reached about you in reading your posts.

Again, I have said this over and again.  You must not understand, so I will say it again.  I have no problem attacking liars and also those who put themselves in the public eye.  NESARA groupies attack G.W. all the time, and you don't seem to care about that.  I can attack Dove and Lavar all I want in the same light. 

And to answer your question:

"Again I ask you how is others obsession with NESARA hindering you from doing good things?"

You are assuming that I don't do good things, so I cannot answer that question logically.  In other words, just because, in your mind, I don't do good things here at Capricorn, has no relevance to whether or not I do good things in the real (non-internet) world.  Your assumption and question is invalid, and therefore cannot be answered logically.

Another false bit:

"I don't need to paint you as dark and angry Tst, you do it very well on your own."

Not true.  I am not angry, nor am I dark.  I am happy and bright!!  You simply don't like what I have to say, and so you must paint me as such.  No sweat here, again, I don't care how you see me.

"It's obvious to everyone but yourself."

I could care less how you, and other NESARA groupies feel about me.   It makes my factual statements no less valid.

Obviously I can't change your mind concerning NESARA.  No sweat again.  It is you who must face up to reality sooner or later.  And when NESARA is never announced it is you who will feel the pain and not me.

And again, like a broken record...

"NESARA is a plan to cure America's problems. If you don't think it can, that's fine. Answer me then what is a better plan? Why waste your time putting something down instead of offering another solution?"

Is it a prerequisite to have a plan to free the world, in order to disagree with NESARA?  In other words, if I had a plan in the stead of NESARA, would you listen to me then?  My words against NESARA are no less credible regardless of whether I have a plan or not.  Besides, NESARA isn't real so my lack of a plan is just the same as having a plan like NESARA.

Last edited by tstandamn (2006-01-09 19:01:04)

Hey, now you are talking.  That is the action, that NESARA groupies aren't willing to take. 

I have been saying that all along.  It isn't real, it was never passed, but if you like the idea so much, then use the system to bring down the system.  Form a political party, do what you can.

But don't lie to the people and say it has been passed, don't lie about a gag order, don't lie about funds and signatures, don't lie about the Navy Seals, don't lie about 9-11....JUST TO TRY AND MANIFEST SOMETHING THAT IS NOT A REALITY.

I have been firm and consistent with this, whereas some NESARA groupies actually admit that it was never enacted...other NESARA groupies strive to get NESARA to manifest into reality....and others actually believe all the hype and the things I listed above.  Don't you see that even NESARA causes disagreement and confusion within the ranks?  This is what happens when people lie.  Lies create confusion.  The same type of confusion created by our president, has been created by all of these NESARA internet groupies.  This is ulitmately very unhealthy.  And while you think that is a good thing, I think that is the real tragedy.  Let's keep the liberals confused and arguing with one another so that the Evil Agenda skates through unchallenged.  They bank on that.

Sorry for the late reply. Tst addressed pretty much everything, I'm just adding to it:

The point you and a few others forget is that regardless whether NESARA exists as a Law or not does not diminish the fact that it is the only plan in existence that has the potential to set America and the world on a foundation of Peace.

How can you say its the only plan? Many people can come up with plans. I have a plan. How about calling for an official investigation of crimes commited by politicians and corporations, which can result in removals and call for oversight by different committees.

Thats one plan out of a million. You may say that its not developed, but neither is NESARA's plan. NESARA talks about removal of corrupt govt. people and replace them right? How do you expect NESARA to remove the corrupt senate and house members? In order to do this, you have to have PHYSICAL PROOF that they did something wrong. That means court cases, for many of these people, and you know how court cases are, prolonged and draged out.

In addition how do you expect NESARA to just go in and remove corrupt military and govt. agency officials? And how does NESARA remove black ops govt. programs? These programs dont exist in the white house accounting notebook remember? Do you really expect the galactic federation to just go in and put a halt to everything and randomly boot people out of office and stop corrupt govt. agencies(CIA, FBI, NSA)? That would spark a roar among supporters and you would see alot of protesting. A lot of this stuff isnt spelled out by the NESARA action plan from Dove's site nor has the galactic fed. explained any of this. They just sit there and talk about removals and nothing has happened.

Those that support NESARA do so out of their Love for Humanity and Gaia.

Why support something that is fraudulent? NESARA has too many loopholes.

Judging from your posts here, and I go back with you to the beginning of last year, that your inability to grasp this is due to the fact that you don't share our concerns.

I do agree with your concerns but I just dont agree with what fraudulent claims that try to achieve these ends. Just becuase I dont agree with NESARA doesnt mean I dont agree with world peace. There are many other plans that you can develop, that are different from NESARA and more realistic.

You claim to be a patriot yet you ignore your own Constitution. A true Patriot's bible is the American Constitution and it's Bill Of Rights which have been desecrated for over 50 years and under the current cabal close to destroyed yet you continue to defame NESARA and those that support it when it is the only plan to return America back to Constitutional Law.

The situation here is that you people want constitutional law back, just like the old days. The problem with this is that it the laws have been changed over the years to meet the demands of the changing world. If you feel they have been desecrated over 50 years than that is your opinion. When I called myself a patriot, I wasnt trying to adhere to your definition of a patriot. If you look up the word in webster: Patriot - one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests.

I am a small time patriot who cares for his country and its people and tries to save them from fraud like this NESARA scam. This scam tries to mislead people against its own country. How? 1 example, "911 was an inside job from our country to prevent NESARA." As a patriot I cant have that. Show me proof!! Otherwise, I will be the one waking you up to reality.

It is irrelevant right now whether it is real or not. What is relevant is that it can return your country to a true Republic with the power back to the people.

I think it is very relavant. It all depends on your motive. Pro-NESARAns will say it doesnt matter whether it is fake or real but that it is an excellent plan. That just sounds like a cope out becuase if its fake why would you take a scammer's idea and try to apply it? And on the other side of the spectrum, you have debunkers like me that are only here to examine how real it is.

Also what type of republic are you talking about? Direct power by the people on all matters or power by govt. officials elected by the people? There are advantages and disadvantages to both sides.

Instead of wasting your energy being negative, I suggest you find something you can be positive about that can create a better world which is what most of us here desire.

I think the work that I do is very positive. I try to expose lies and fraud. NESARA just happens to be my first victim on the lies and fraud list. In helping people wake up, it does them a big favor and allows them to think realistically and maybe try to come up with a REAL plan that can spark change.

And  interesting how you insist that you attack the message and not the messenger. Is that the case here by calling Dove a lunatic?

I think you misinterpreted Tst. He said he DOESNT attack the messenger but he DOES attack the MESSAGE. So who are the messengers? NESARA believers that post channelings and Dove reports on this forum. But notice that I didnt include Dove, Candace, J.L., A&A and all the rest. WHY? Becuase they CREATED the message and are therefore apart of the MESSAGE so they can and will be attacked for spreading lies. How do I know their lies? Maybe you can present me some physical evidence to justify NESARA(NESARA bills), or something that can counter my postings against NESARA's existance.

My point about the NESARA websites is to show you that there are many worldwide that support the changes NESARA can bring...The fact is NESARA is now known worldwide.

I did a google search on NESARA and got 190,000. Most of those pages come from the same site. For example, if fourwinds has an article out, they submit each article to the web search engine so that adds extra sites found. In addition, a search for NESARA indicates results for NESARA.org, and other criticisms of Dove's NESARA. 

But I DO agree with you NESARA is known world wide and there are alot of international sites. But keep in mind it only takes a few people (most likely 1 person) to make a site. Some of these websites are also "fan" sites of NESARA believers. Anyone can put a site out. Just becuase NESARA has worldwide recognition doesnt mean that it is any more real than Santa Claus.

On a side note: What is your opinion on Dove's HYIP Scam? You know the one with obtaining millions in a few days?

Last edited by shaq786 (2006-01-10 05:04:23)