A place to have your say and to see what others say too.
You are not logged in.
I have been reading Helena messages for a little while now and it has made me question why Helena doesn't have better sources than human intel on the ground. If she is the captain of a starship would she not be recieving all her info from higher sources. Perhaps those in the know!
Sunrise asks - Who is Lavar?- "Perhaps those in the know!"
I'm reposting this from 11-23-2005
I only present the facts as Lavar already presents them to the world himself. For those of you who are unaware, Lavar is also the channeler for Sananda at the nesara int'l site, something he doesn't want people to know.
LAVAR BOLDLY CONTINUES TO PUSH HIS MORMON AGENDA
#1 2005-11-23 14:33:31
E-mail Website LAVAR BOLDLY CONTINUES TO PUSH HIS MORMON AGENDAhttp://secondcoming.insights2.org/Sananda11.html
23rd November: It will not be much longer before I shall be with you in the spirit and then later, at a time of my choosing, to be with you in the flesh. I shall be able to use your services when I have gone to Jerusalem and need to send messages back to any of my churches. Hopefully, there will be many that will be inspired by your efforts and those of my dear friend in communicating by telepathy.
As I have stated before it is my desire that there be telepathic persons in all of my churches and in all of the wards and stakes of the church you belong to. Then we shall have the means by which gospel messages can be easily be presented and received throughout the Christian community. Hopefully, there will be many who will study the book that has been given by several of the celestials to our friend and it is expected that the course on telepathy will soon be published and made available.
This is exactly the kind of stuff I’m talking about. Maybe it’s because I’m an former mormon now, but am I the only one seeing this?
"I shall be able to use your services when I have gone to Jerusalem and need to send messages back to any of my churches."
More of Lavar's mormon PR crap.
"As I have stated before it is my desire that there be telepathic persons in all of my churches and in all of the wards and stakes of the church you belong to."
More mormon terminology. "Ward" is a congregation and "stakes" are groups of wards.
" Hopefully, there will be many who will study the book that has been given by several of the celestials to our friend and it is expected that the course on telepathy will soon be published and made available."
Lavar's still peddling that mormon telepathy book.
GET A CLUE. LAVAR HAS HIS OWN AGENDA. GOD HELP US ALL!
Last edited by organic (2005-11-23 14:49:20)
CHANGE the way you look at things and the things you look at CHANGE.
Report | Delete | Edit | Quote
#2 2005-11-23 14:41:39
E-mail Website Re: LAVAR BOLDLY CONTINUES TO PUSH HIS MORMON AGENDAThis is why I blew the whistle and exposed Lavar a month ago on the guestbook. This is why the almighty Candace Frieze came after me with a four page tongue lashing email. Lavar is a fraud. His is unable to separate his telepathic abilities from the mormon church. To those of you who think I'm a mormon basher, think again. I only present the facts as they are already presented to the world by Lavar himself. He is quite ballsy indeed.
Maybe now everyone can see what Lavar has not wanted anyone to know. This is why his name is not listed on the nesara int'l site as the channeler for Sananda. HE HAS HIS OWN AGENDA.
Last edited by organic (2005-11-23 14:59:28)
CHANGE the way you look at things and the things you look at CHANGE.
Last edited by organic (2005-12-02 22:11:01)
You are suffering from advanced delusion and gullibility. Who is feeding you all this crap? It has to be someone, because I doubt you came up with this all by yourself. You are trusting the wrong people, and if you are waiting for NESASRA like the toothless ex-Mormon wonders from the movie, you will be waiting a long, long time. And I would hate for you to die disappointed and waiting for a lie to become a reality.
And if none of those people can give an accurate date/time for the b.s. announcement, why do they do it all the time? Just to make themselves bigger liars?
"sotapanno", I have emailed patrick a question that has something to what you have answered "sunrise"
I hope you have some time to answer this question. I was on a site called http://secondcoming.insights2.org/Sananda10.html..This is what has been said by Sanada Immanuel "and As prophesied I shall be with you in Zion and then I will go to Jerusalem."
Could you perhaps tell me why Sananda Immanuel would refer to zion if zion's meaning is what is causing such chaos since the beginning of jewry, why has Sananda Immanuel referred to this as I will be with you in zion. I thought zion was something that the torah as told by God (supposingly) that the Hebrews should never make a state for themselves because it will only cause hate and destruction amongst them and the people of the middle east, and the world. Zion, in my learning is nothing more than evil that has caused murdering to millions since the 1st destruction of the temple.
Thank you kindly for your wonderful website, and your inspiration.
FROM: Patrick H. Bellringer
DATE: Nov. 3, 2005
As you may know the Mormons have built a "new Zion" in Utah with headquarters in Salt Lake City, as the New Jerusalem". My interpretation of this quote is that Sananda will go to Utah and deal with the Mormon Church and its evil leadership. Then he will go to Jerusalem, Israel and deal with the evil Zionists, who for many centuries have tried to destroy and kill and control every country they infiltrated. Since the time of Abraham they have tried to destroy the Arabs. They are the Pharisees of old, who again control Jerusalem and, now , Salt Lake City, and by the way, the governments today of Britain and the United States.
The Chosen People of God were the Sumerians of Iraq, and the Promised Land was the Garden of Eden located at the junction of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in Iraq. The Israelites killed the Sumerians and stole their history many centuries ago and re-wrote it in the Old Testament of the Bible, as if it were their own history. For example, the Moses of the Old Testament is a fake Moses but patterned after the real Moses of the Sumerians. The Israelites were driven out of Egypt because they were thugs and thieves.
The two recent Iraq Wars have been, more importantly, attempts to gain access to the Stargates in Iraq and the Sumerian library of great knowledge and their 5D technology that is hidden in Iraq. Our true history has many surprises. Some of these surprises can be found in some of the Phoenix Journals. The new history books have already been written and will be brought to us by the Star People when they come.
I may not have answered all your questions, but this is a start.
In Love and Light,
Patrick H. Bellringer
This was more of a question about zion, I was trying to understand the zion thing..what significance it had to the second coming. I also wonder why sananda immanuel would even go through religious churches at all? When religion is so FIXED and controlled? But then again, when reading the phoenix journal #2..i am immanuel..jesus esu goes to the temples and preaches the WORD, so he will go through religion because it is all so corrupted and messed with through control and money and greed. I am not a mormon, nor have I studied any of the teachings of the mormons, I respect all religions only because of the people that are or where involved. I am not into religion at all personally, been there and done that. Yes, the Hebrew people or Jews would not accept a savior as they didn't 2000 yrs ago, they are expecting a messiah of a different kind. Jesus is not even in their book of prophets, they wiped all mention of him out.
I have a feeling that the Mormon religion is mostly fear-based, like Christianity and Islam.
But these all should be changed by Crist's comming in spirit. (If they will allow the Christ consciousness in. Yeah, when hell freezes over. Right?)
I also have a feeling that most of these fear-based control groups are also unaware of how badly we're being screwed by "The Beast".
So they will have to go through a "Tribulation Period" before the can see the whole truth, I suppose.
Sounds like what I'm seeing...
Then Christ might be able to come physically. If he was here now, the CIA would kill him.
Last edited by stanplock (2005-12-03 19:41:06)
what I'm really asking myself is, why people like ORGANIC are reading capricorn-messages or any kind of channelings ! If you don't have the ability of BELIEVING, why do you waste your time here ? If you think LAVAR is such a liar, just stop reading. But I get the impression that it's important for you to make a maximum amount of people stop taking this for serious. Please RESPECT others a little bit more (in 3 and 5 dimensions!).
Do you really think, being a 3-dimesional lifeform, we are able to understand the complexity behind NESARA or all the things that are "disappointing" people like ORGNIC ?! Of course not !
So whatever you get by a channeling, it's adopted the our possibilities or understanding. And of course, some things don't appear to be logic or consequent from our restricted point of view.
The first step you should do, ORGANIC, is to find out more about yourself, get into contact with your soul and your abilities the exceed the possibilities of the "flesh". Maybe then you FEEL the difference !
Change the world with what you think about it, because we're all connected and create in what we believe in.
Greeting in love and light,
The movie was called Waiting for NESARA.
I don't have a problem with the NESARA groupies. I have a problem with the liars in charge of the websites, and with the liars with specific churches and their agenda.
Did you realize the heavy Mormon influence in this whole thing?
It is like a Mormon branch cult, and to outsiders, that is so plain and simple to see.
And I would never wish you to die or go away.
As I look back to the above post I realize I was a bit harsh, unnecessarily. I am sorry for that, I must have been in a snappy mood.
I hope we can move on.
This is where I have learned (and still am learning!) the greatest lesson of Life, and whereupon I try to the best of my ability to base my life on:
Respect. Compassion. Love.
First and formost this is repsect of My Self. For If cannot respect my Self how can I possibly respect anything else. From this point respect must be exteneded to all that is. And I mean ALL. Every human being I know of seeks Respect.
Respect finds its basis in compassion with all that is. To find and express compassion with 'other' is a most difficult lesson for many if not all humans. Compassion does not mean pity, for pity is just compassion heavily clouded with Ego.
Compassion has its basis in Love. Unconditional Love. Love of Self (not the 'little self', which is veiled by Ego), which is in truth the ultimate expression for Love of All That Is. For if I cannot love my Self, and so be completely and totally 'in Love', how can I possibly love other?
Man, I could only dream to write like that...................Beautifully said......N*S
I think I am more upset (not angry) that the NESARA groupies can believe junk that is so obviously false. And that has nothing to do with fear.
We cannot all live in the "love" dimension at all times. It takes work to practice that, as much as it takes "work" to be a functioning Buddhist.
I don't buy the love/fear argument. Those are simply human words attatched to events. An entire spectrum of words describing emotional attatchments exist, and the can't all be lumped into two categories.
People exist at different mindsets at different times. I have my low points and my high points. I certainly do not live up to my moral standards all of the time, and unless you are perfect, I doubt you do either. Think about it. Are you perfect? Do you ever make mistakes?
I make mistakes, and I learn. I offer compassion whenever I can, and I try and never harm others...but I make mistakes. And when I do, I don't label my action as "from fear" just because I screwed up. And when I am at my best, shining brightly, I don't automatically assume I am coming "from love." I am simply acting how I act. No labels to try and describe where I am coming from, some imaginary void where these ever-changing words have meaning attatched only to the DEFINER....Perception is everything, but when all is stripped down, we have actuality. Actual events. Love and Fear and Anger and Hate and Like and Dislike are all human emotional attatchments to those physical events. In the moment, we go with our instinct. Sometimes the result appears to be from "fear" and sometimes from "love" but that result can only be determined given the definition or understanding of those words by the perceiver. Again, the personal or human "after-effect" of attatching emotion to an actual event.
Maybe you are too angry to accept my sincere apology. So are you coming at me in fear? Or are you just acting how you feel like acting at the moment? I could perceive that as coming "from fear." But I don't. You are just being yourself, sometimes from fear, sometimes from love, but only after the fact can you look back and judge each action.
Last edited by tstandamn (2005-12-04 17:46:41)
Not to be offensive, but the totality of your last post mirrors posts that have been posted here over and over again...the creating your own reality argument is ever-present around here. I have heard all of this a million times before.
But althoug we have certain physical powers of creation, we cannot always create our own reality. We can perceive our reality, we can define our reality, but we cannot create our own reality with the effectiveness that many around here would like to think.
Look at NESARA. They have been trying to "create" that reality for years now. And it is not %1 more real today than when it was theorized by Dr. Barnard(and then altered) .
Last edited by tstandamn (2005-12-05 00:52:21)
And...no matter how you cut it, unless you are mentally impaired (as I assume Lavar might be), when you say something is going to happen, which Lavar has, over and over again, and that does not happen...AND, you continue to do this over and over again for a purpose or reason, that, to me, constitutes a lie. It might not have been such a lie at first, but over and over again with full knowledge and clarity (assuming again, he is not clinically insane) his "predictions" can now be classified as lies.
Try this and good luck.
I'm sure that Lavar/Harold L. Fox is a kind and gentle man. I worked on a project for him. Very courteous and also very scatter brained. I'm sure he is a dedicated scientist and is proficient at his job. I'm sure he is genuine in wanting to clean up mother earth and to get his energy gizmos up and running. I'm sure he thinks he has real telepathic abilitiies. No comment there. I know he is devoted to the mormon church. Very passionate there. I defended Lavar to no end when I used to post on the Capricorn guestbook. I was one of his biggest fans.
I have no beef with Lavar's religion. He could be a catholic, baptist, presbyerian or jew for all I care. It is his inability to separate his faith from his channelings with his messages from Sananda on the nesara int'l site that is my beef. In October, I asked Milson MacLeod, who runs the nesara int'l site at nesara.insights2.org to remove a part of the Telepathy section about the mormon church because it was offending people. Being the "Contact" person at the time for signing up people for the telepathy class I got a lot of emails from people wanting to sign up but "what's with all this mormon stuff"? Milson promptly removed it. Telepathy and religion don't mix.
So in conclusion, I have not beef with Lavar as a human being. His channeling with Helena is ... best I not go there. I'm sure he's a wonderful person who is worthy of getting to know. It saddens me that some feel that I posted the facts on the WHO IS LAVAR post out of FEAR. Unless one knows the true intent of my heart I don't know how someone could come to that conclusion. Did not the one called Jesus present truth based on LOVE and not FEAR? And how do we know the true intent of Jesus? Because everyone knows that he was, is, and will forever be pure of heart in all things. It's hard to determine the truth intent of why people may post something not knowing their heart. If anyone believes that I posted out of malice, you are sorely mistaken, because that is not true. Love to you all. Organic out.
Last edited by organic (2005-12-05 01:42:42)
I like peace.
thank you for your post. It's great to read your comment ! We'd have less wars and problems in life, if everybody thought like you do. I also try to be like that, but it's not soooo easy all the time.
To my website: Some topics are still under construction (and as I don't have much time, they still will remain like that).
Love an peace,
What I would really like to hear from Lavar is an explanation on why he "unintentionally" misleads over and over again.
I certainly hope the man is not insane, but insanity comes in many, many different packages.
We have discussed one definition of insanity here before...and it goes something like this..
Insanity is performing the same action repeatedly yet anticipating different results.
Lavar certainly fits that definition. Perhaps it might be more fitting to call his "behavior" insane, instead of calling "him" insane. (Quotes signify emphasis).
Also I would like for him to, as a scientist, respond to the suggestion that the "channellings" he is receiving might be from a terrestrial force such as some mind control branch of the CIA for example.
And finally, I would like to know how Lavar feels about Prophet Yahweh. It is scary how strikingly similar Lavar and Prophet Yahweh are.
Some examples of the similarities between
Prophet Yahweh and Lavar (Hal, Harmen) :
(1) Both believe they are in charge of "first contact"
(2) Both claim to receive channelled messages from aliens in UFO ships (Lavar--Helena, Sananda, P.Y.--Yahweh)
(3) Both dupe people in with UFO promise, yet have a hidden religious agenda as well. (Lavar--Mormon, P.Y.--Black Israelite Jew)
(4) Both make predictions based on channellings that come and pass on a regular basis
(5) Both live in Utah (Very odd coincidence....1 in 50 chance)
(6) Both are advanced in age, and display charasteristics of insanity (P.Y. has been clinically diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia)
(7) Both fail to answer the important questions and focus only on perpetuating their channellings
(8) Both have served in the Unites States Military
(9) Both do not use their real name, and/or have multiple names (Lavar a.k.a. Hal Fox, Harmen...P.Y. a.k.a. Ramon Watkins, et al)
(10) Both claim to eat organically
(11) Both use the internet, and seemingly only the internet to reach the public (not very uncommon, thus at the bottom of the list)
That's it for now.
Last edited by tstandamn (2005-12-05 14:51:51)
I'm with you about killing anything even if it's a pesky snail. I don't think I could squash them myself. I live in Arizona so I don't have this problem. I've lived in Utah and grew up in Florida, so I understand the problem first hand. I can't even kill an insect with harsh chemicals either. I use concoctions like cinnamon to keep red ants away from our patio. They don't like it. Doesn't get rid of them, but at least I keep them at bay. Try the above link and see if it speaks to you. If not, hmmm...keeping looking.
Last edited by organic (2005-12-05 16:54:49)
The only thing I am trying to get across is that these guys are using the same modus operandi, and NESARA groupies support Lavar because they like his NESARA claims, and yet Prophet Yahweh is a joke to them. To me, they aren't one and the same, but they ARE one and the same in very, very many way.
By the way, categorically denying things one at a time is a lawyer way of dealing with arguments. You should teach that tactic to some people around here, and maybe they wouldn't be so gullible. You should use the same tactics to discern Lavars claims over time, and you would find it pretty unreasonable.
And with your "voting" scenario, that would apply if you kept voting knowing that the elections were frauds. If an election is rigged over and over again, and it is proven to be rigged, it would be an exercise in insanity to keep voting.
And finally, if you knew how much of a joke P.Y. is, then you would probably see my point even more clearly, because I watch the paths of both men (as a hobby) and I find them to be so very similar.
One difference is that P.Y. has brought the religious aspect to the forefront of his movement, and Lavar continues to hide his Mormonism, and his secret Mormon agenda.
It has been established that Lavar is carrying out missions for the Mormon church, as one of our members, an ex-NESARAN and ex-Mormon has exposed.
(Oh, and P.Y. has nothing to do with NESARA/Sananda, Helena. His imaginary friends are on a different imaginary ship).
Last edited by tstandamn (2005-12-05 18:29:23)
sotapanno.... another good way to get rid of snails and slugs is "Sluggo", it's an organic compound that has iron in it and they like the taste, they swell up and die, I had alot of problems in the past with slugs and snails since I live in a very wet place... Oregon... and they love my lettuce, beer is hard to use if you live in a wet place, because the rain always washes it away. it is also ok for pets if by chance they eat it, it only hurts slugs and snails.
http://www.galacticfriends.com/index.ph … ;Itemid=89
http://galacticfriends.com/index.php?op … ;Itemid=57
these are the most often website that i visit, and though u r right (how do u know??)
during the time i have been following this u can see it come to be, our schools and church have told us not to believe in these things, but they never give the real answer either, keep and open mind and watch the skies, it is not for me to convince you , that is for your discernment
search throught these and others there is lot of knowledge out there, remember this
Your failure to be informed, does not make me a wacko." By John Loeffler.
"Today's nut is tomorrow's oak tree that held its ground." By Plato. peace
thanks for some of those sites, 4 winds is my home page, and the sunriseofthesolardisc, although sometimes get a bit annoyed when A&A say "we love to lie", but the news part is very informative, and the whiteknights911.
I do watch the skies everynight, and I see lots of activity, I live in rural america. Lots of stars with colorful lights moving up and down, and far distances and back again.
Remember the bible wiped out any reference to UFO's and reincarnation, and schools will not teach this either, the media tells you only that which THEY want you to know, nor do they want you to know that you have the power with your positive thoughts, and prayers, to heal yourself, and create your own positive life, and to make your world more positive you have to think good thoughts..thoughts, words and deeds are ALL connected...
I'd rather be nuts, a wacko, a looney than stay in the matrix, and be a dumb dumb!!
bostonn said -
"Today's nut is tomorrow's oak tree that held its ground." By Plato.
Cute. I love it.
What is worse than living/remaining in the Matrix (ignorance is bliss) is when someone is still in the Matrix when they think they aren't.
well let's see... you have a choice either to take the blue pill or the red pill..which one shall I take? if I take the blue pill I will see and uncover the illusions that the media feeds me and the AMA, and the Big Pharma, and the school system(his-story) untruths, churches, which I don't part take in religious corporations.governement.....or take the red pill, and stay HERE, and be fed the media crapola, church bullcrap, school lessons, take the drugs the quacks want me to take for any number of reasons to take away the pain, and listen to the quacks that tell you there's no such thing as herbal remedies, they don't work or there is no such thing as other life on other planets (UFOs) or there are no guardian angels that watch over you and guide you (do you believe?) so that is what I mean, staying here in the matrix and going along with the crap they feed us..so I am dyslexic..so sue me!!!
I don't understand the dyslexic comment :-
But everything else checks out a okay with me.
Wouldn't it be a great task to compile all of the above concepts into one huge book? Or perhaps a website (I am sure they exist) that just gets it all right?
As for myself, I stepped out of the Matrix gradually...I still probably have a foot or a leg in and out over time. It is difficult to make a clean break like NEO did. There is simply too much to unlearn and relearn over night.
Weed can help, as for the mental aspects..but I think a slow transition is more realistic because you learn to learn for yourself, and stop depending on others for information or to verify the validity of a belief. (This is kind of like a post-Matrix naivety, whereas one rebels from things in the Matrix such as the AMA, or religion..and they obsess in something or blindly fall into the same lack of discernment trap that they suffered inside of the Matrix. This is what I feel many around here suffer from).
This is why I feel that attatchment to NESARA or channellers or whatever, is still like being in the Matrix. It is still being a slave to the concepts introduced, unverified and unverifiable, and the failure to discern reality from non-reality. If not the latter, than at least being a slave to the concepts of others.
It takes an open mind, discernment, and willingness to be in a balanced place where the b.s. becomes appearant and the official (Matrix) story becomes paper thin.
The naivety and ignorance of believing the "official" history or more clearly "living in the Matrix" is certainly mirrored by the same blind faith in things like the Omega scam and NESARA.
Having an open mind is wonderful, but that isn't all it takes...for sure.